The National Anthem
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Originally posted by udontknowme:
a teacher in primary school once told me i should not be singing it since i wasnt singaporean.
then in secondary school i got scolded because i didnt sing it.
what then exactly am i supposed to do
you just hum lah
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Originally posted by White_SoulReaper:
then singapore is wat, malay state? r u sure? the indonesians claim that m'sia n s'pore is their state too... so which is it? this land may be once dominant by the malays, but no is not the case anymore isit?
the most of the founders r dead... y need to look into the past? shouldnt we look into the future instead? dun tell me u wan s'pore to be like truly asia, still stuck at the back of time bcoz the m'sian malays dun like change...
it's time to look at the future NOT the past...
please lah....dun be ignorant and sarcastic lah.....
you're a singaporean....live like one.....
did i say we are a malay state? you're just being to racial on this issue.....first you talk about culture....then you talk about race......wth.....
why need to look at the past? are you nazi or something?
we're talking about changing a country here.....changing its national anthem is like changing the whole country......we must learn to respect our past in order to go on forward to the future.....
you wan spore to be like japan? they write their own history?
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lets day that we do not need to change the translation, then why not adopt other languages(non-malay) as well as a national anthem? be sung at school...
like deino have said, our culture may evolve but our history may never do that... Since wen did i say we need to change history? History is in the past and that the end of it. I did state that our culture should evolve... why stick to the past and not change our evolving culture?
Do you still see that the 'original' culture(be it malay, chinese, indian etc) being practised strongly as they were during the 1940s? Our culture is evolving adapting and changing(minor) to different cultures in s'pore.
Deino, ur sentences seems paradoxical to me...
Why makes you think that the chinese in s'pore is more priviledged? i think coz the chinese more educated(no offense), statistics have been done that shows the malays r less educated as many r dropouts...
Personally, i have seen the malays in singapore... Half are really hardworking n the other half are the lazy ones that like to hang around at the void decks...
i too believe that every race got its black sheep... U cant see it in the chinese coz of the large population compared to other races in s'pore...
P.S. short Ninja... i didnt start this thread... u did...
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
If it is truly multi-racial then let no changes be made.Why can't Singaporeans be proud of their Anthem like the South Americans or Eastern Europeans?
Sporeans then would be proud .........not the sporeans now.....
sporeans now like soulreaper seems to forget the patrioticness and the feeling of wot others back then would feel when LKY shouted for independence......
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Singing the Anthem in Schools may me a chore for stdents like someone said earlier but as adults if it is still a chore accompanied by silly reasons for not wanting to sing it then I feel sad for a develope country called 'Singapore'
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i disagree that changing a national anthem will change a country...I think it will help this country move past its racial barrier.
I have stated in one of my post, if there is no change in this ever changing world... you'll be left behind...
I think u r biased towards the malays ( be it whatever ur race), u r defending something that is in the past... No change, we'll be stagnant...
Of course the founding fathers and the past will be remembered... but it is still the past...
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Originally posted by White_SoulReaper:
lets day that we do not need to change the translation, then why not adopt other languages(non-malay) as well as a national anthem? be sung at school...
like deino have said, our culture may evolve but our history may never do that... Since wen did i say we need to change history? History is in the past and that the end of it. I did state that our culture should evolve... why stick to the past and not change our evolving culture?
Do you still see that the 'original' culture(be it malay, chinese, indian etc) being practised strongly as they were during the 1940s? Our culture is evolving adapting and changing(minor) to different cultures in s'pore.
Deino, ur sentences seems paradoxical to me...
Why makes you think that the chinese in s'pore is more priviledged? i think coz the chinese more educated(no offense), statistics have been done that shows the malays r less educated as many r dropouts...
Personally, i have seen the malays in singapore... Half are really hardworking n the other half are the lazy ones that like to hang around at the void decks...
i too believe that every race got its black sheep... U cant see it in the chinese coz of the large population compared to other races in s'pore...
P.S. short Ninja... i didnt start this thread... u did...
actually yes the chinese are more priveledged in this country......you guys dominate the media......about jobscope most companies always preferred chinese speaking men.......which forces people of other races to speak chinese......there was once an indian colleague of mine went to apply for a job which he was highly qualified as.....the person who interviewed him told him that they preffered if he was able to speak chinese......
dun you think chinese are given priority?.....i seriously have nothing wrong with that since you are the majority of the country
statistics are statistics.....if malays were the majority we could've said the same.......
spore was number 29th in terms of security becoz of statistics......the reason being so was becoz of the size of our army even though its size was relatively big enough for our country and all.....
actually about black sheeps.....i see them everyday.....i do not side any race here.......but the cause of our black sheeps is the bad effects of our multi culturalness......
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Originally posted by White_SoulReaper:
i disagree that changing a national anthem will change a country...I think it will help this country move past its racial barrier.
I have stated in one of my post, if there is no change in this ever changing world... you'll be left behind...
I think u r biased towards the malays ( be it whatever ur race), u r defending something that is in the past... No change, we'll be stagnant...
Of course the founding fathers and the past will be remembered... but it is still the past...
this is wot you said:the most of the founders r dead... y need to look into the past?
by saying that, it shows how disrespectful you are to them....
and by saying this:the malays r the minority here... they should join their brothers n sisters in m'sia lol. The malay language sucks btw...
you are being too racial.....
i'm not really defending the past......i'm defending the people who made this country and wot it was and is........not those who want to change the country and yes, changing the national anthem means changing part of the country of wot it was......coz changing the language of it means that you have some racial problem towards it rather than openly accepting it
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I am not saying that malays r the only ones with black sheeps... all other races have black sheeps too... it's either u see it or u dun see it...
so wat u r trying to say that these black sheep were the bad effects of our multi-culturalness... Therefore to prevent these kind of black sheeps is to just be true to only one culture that u r from? malays stays in malay kampong, chinese stay in chinese village, indians stay at indian village isit?
Arent you being the racist here... Does it matter where we all came from, we r here now... rite now in singapore... nothing can change that...
But if u say that these black sheeps were effects of multi-culturalness, i would disagree... how about the malay black sheeps in m'sia(Mat remp-it - if i am not wrong)? I doubt that they were strongly exposed to other cultures...
P.S. what makes u think i am a chinese?
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Originally posted by White_SoulReaper:
I am not saying that malays r the only ones with black sheeps... all other races have black sheeps too... it's either u see it or u dun see it...
so wat u r trying to say that these black sheep were the bad effects of our multi-culturalness... Therefore to prevent these kind of black sheeps is to just be true to only one culture that u r from? malays stays in malay kampong, chinese stay in chinese village, indians stay at indian village isit?
Arent you being the racist here... Does it matter where we all came from, we r here now... rite now in singapore... nothing can change that...
But if u say that these black sheeps were effects of multi-culturalness, i would disagree... how about the malay black sheeps in m'sia(Mat remp-it - if i am not wrong)? I doubt that they were strongly exposed to other cultures...
P.S. what makes u think i am a chinese?
wot i said was "the cause of our black sheeps is the bad effects of our multi culturalness......"
do you understand english?
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Originally posted by White_SoulReaper:
I am not saying that malays r the only ones with black sheeps... all other races have black sheeps too... it's either u see it or u dun see it...
so wat u r trying to say that these black sheep were the bad effects of our multi-culturalness... Therefore to prevent these kind of black sheeps is to just be true to only one culture that u r from? malays stays in malay kampong, chinese stay in chinese village, indians stay at indian village isit?
Arent you being the racist here... Does it matter where we all came from, we r here now... rite now in singapore... nothing can change that...
But if u say that these black sheeps were effects of multi-culturalness, i would disagree... how about the malay black sheeps in m'sia(Mat remp-it - if i am not wrong)? I doubt that they were strongly exposed to other cultures...
P.S. what makes u think i am a chinese?
i didn't say that you said that the malays are the only black sheeps
i'm talking about black sheeps in singapore....
i think your comment on this:(the malays r the minority here... they should join their brothers n sisters in m'sia lol. The malay language sucks btw...) is more racial....and i bet others would agree
well.....in this case the way you talk about the malays lets me assume you are one......mind me if i am wrong.....
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can anyone tell me why we must sing the anthem every morning/evening?
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Originally posted by 我爱周�伦:
can anyone tell me why we must sing the anthem every morning/evening?
becoz the morning session students sing it before school and afternoon will have to do the closing......
i think its to make you feel patriotic day and night.....
like when you open the school, you do it for singapore and when closing time, you close it for singapore.....
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as i have said, it is in the past... and from the thread that we strayed of... respecting our founding fathers is impt... Non malays who do not understand word by word of the national anthem do not know the signifance of this anthem... Changing the translation where everyone can understand and rememeber or even be inspired by the founding fathers...
Whats the point of singing something that i do not understand word to word... Maybe some non malays would learn and pick up the meaning of the anthem by learning it word to word, but in present time, who would do that... furthermore, the past is becoming very dim, youngsters nowadays dun even know their history... Understanding and singing the anthem everyday would created more loyalty & patriotic to the future gen...
read my post too about what u said about black sheeps caused by multi-culturalism... i do understand english, do u? read my post 10 times if u have too...
and it's not called racial... it's called racism... dont u know?
and i am one of what?
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Originally posted by White_SoulReaper:
as i have said, it is in the past... and from the thread that we strayed of... respecting our founding fathers is impt... Non malays who do not understand word by word of the national anthem do not know the signifance of this anthem... Changing the translation where everyone can understand and rememeber or even be inspired by the founding fathers...
Whats the point of singing something that i do not understand word to word... Maybe some non malays would learn and pick up the meaning of the anthem by learning it word to word, but in present time, who would do that... furthermore, the past is becoming very dim, youngsters nowadays dun even know their history... Understanding and singing the anthem everyday would created more loyalty & patriotic to the future gen...
read my post too about what u said about black sheeps caused by multi-culturalism... i do understand english, do u? read my post 10 times if u have too...
and it's not called racial... it's called racism... dont u know?
and i am one of what?
the national anthem was made in malay by a malay so it would only be appropriate if we respected him nd not change his work....
by saying who would do that it just proves who ignorant sporeans really are......
i did not say all black sheeps were caused by the bad effects of multi-culturalism......
sometimes, the bad effects of it is when you stay away from it......the case of matrempits are different....it has nothing to do with the bad effect of multi culuralism.......matrempits are caused by the bad effects of addiction to motorcycles and daredevilness
if i said you were being too "racism" it would've been wrong.....the right word would be being to racial
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It is best to describe them as ethnocentric so as not to hurt their feelings
One more question,If only the music of 'Majulah Singapore' is being played and not sung in any language would you all still feel it in your hearts? -
whatever you say... but i am still not conviced why we should stick to it...
but by other races singaporeans singing the national athem w/o knowing the what it means word to word is another insult to his living memory... It's just saying the words w/o any sentimental meaning...
And r the sch & fellow s'poreans doing enough to educate the young about our national anthem? i dun think so... in my experience of going to singapore public sch for 10 years, it was only once that the school taught us the meaning of the national anthem...and it didnt stick in my head... Do anybody in the surroundings of youth today suggest that youths should check out the meaning of our national anthem?
So what is the point of singing the national anthem w/o sentimental value to it?
My thinking is, if it is translated when it is sung, the youths would respect more of the living memory of singapore & it's founders as they know what the national anthem means...
how is it that i am racial as racial means 'existing betweeen different races'...
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
It is best to describe them as ethnocentric so as not to hurt their feelings
One more question,If only the music of
'Majulah Singapore' is being played and not sung in any language
would you all still feel it in your hearts?you'd have to.....
it is ignorance for a citizen to live only for themselves and not their country......to know the country is to know its national anthem
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short ninja, of course not... what's the point of a song w/o it's words? would u listen to a love song w/o lyrics? it's the lyrics that makes the whole thing special...
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Originally posted by White_SoulReaper:
whatever you say... but i am still not conviced why we should stick to it...
but by other races singaporeans singing the national athem w/o knowing the what it means word to word is another insult to his living memory... It's just saying the words w/o any sentimental meaning...
And r the sch & fellow s'poreans doing enough to educate the young about our national anthem? i dun think so... in my experience of going to singapore public sch for 10 years, it was only once that the school taught us the meaning of the national anthem...and it didnt stick in my head... Do anybody in the surroundings of youth today suggest that youths should check out the meaning of our national anthem?
So what is the point of singing the national anthem w/o sentimental value to it?
My thinking is, if it is translated when it is sung, the youths would respect more of the living memory of singapore & it's founders as they know what the national anthem means...
how is it that i am racial as racial means 'existing betweeen different races'...
like i said before.....changing the language means disrespecting the writer of the song......
and for those who doesn't take time to know their country for wot it is for is ignorance......
our founders wouldn't have wanted to know that their successors are ignorant people would they....
wot i meant by you being racial was on the topic...being racial on the topic.....
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i dunno if this would help but just a quote from wiki about translation;
Translations
Interviewed by the Oral History Department in 1989, Dr. Toh Chin Chye said it was appropriate for the national anthem to be in Malay, "the indigenous language of the region, as English is not native to this part of the world." He felt that the "Malay version of the national anthem would appeal to all races... it can be easily understood. And at the same time [it] can be easily remembered... [I]t must be brief, to the point; ... and can be sung"[30] However, on 22 July 1991, the English daily newspaper The Straits Times reported that during a meeting between the then Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong and community leaders,[31] a group of grassroots leaders and a lawyer had suggested that "adjustments" should be made to the national anthem. The given reason was that many Singaporeans could not sing it in Malay and therefore did not have "strong feelings" or "strong emotions when they sing the national anthem".[32] In particular, some grassroots leaders argued that since the Chinese constitute a majority of the population, a Mandarin version of the anthem should be used.[32] The Prime Minister's response was that he would keep the national anthem as it was while ensuring that translations in other mother tongues were more easily available.[31] The proposal to change the lyrics was also criticized by former Deputy Prime Minister S. Rajaratnam, who felt that the Malay lyrics of the anthem were so simple that "anyone over the age of five, unless mentally retarded, had no difficulty singing the anthem. All Singaporean children of kindergarten age have not only had no difficulty memorising the words but have for decades sung it every morning with 'strong feelings and emotion'." He also noted that the anthem had been translated into Singapore's three other official languages (English, Mandarin and Tamil) for those who cannot understand Malay.[32]
A subsequent poll by The Straits Times found that while many Singaporeans knew what the anthem generally meant, only seven out of 35 persons interviewed knew the meaning of each word. However, all but three of those interviewed agreed that the anthem should continue to be sung in Malay. The three persons who disagreed felt that the anthem should be in English because that was the language most commonly used in Singapore. All the interviewees, including those who did not know the meaning of the lyrics, said they felt a sense of pride when they heard or sang the national anthem.[31]
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It is not always that an Anthem is sung together with the words.So for instance if you do get a gold medal in the Olympics,you would be without feelings at the flag raising ceremony?
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given that if our founding fathers was still alive today and leading spore.....i dun think they would've changed the national anthem....
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Originally posted by Deino:
i dunno if this would help but just a quote from wiki about translation;
Translations
Interviewed by the Oral History Department in 1989, Dr. Toh Chin Chye said it was appropriate for the national anthem to be in Malay, "the indigenous language of the region, as English is not native to this part of the world." He felt that the "Malay version of the national anthem would appeal to all races... it can be easily understood. And at the same time [it] can be easily remembered... [I]t must be brief, to the point; ... and can be sung"[30] However, on 22 July 1991, the English daily newspaper The Straits Times reported that during a meeting between the then Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong and community leaders,[31] a group of grassroots leaders and a lawyer had suggested that "adjustments" should be made to the national anthem. The given reason was that many Singaporeans could not sing it in Malay and therefore did not have "strong feelings" or "strong emotions when they sing the national anthem".[32] In particular, some grassroots leaders argued that since the Chinese constitute a majority of the population, a Mandarin version of the anthem should be used.[32] The Prime Minister's response was that he would keep the national anthem as it was while ensuring that translations in other mother tongues were more easily available.[31] The proposal to change the lyrics was also criticized by former Deputy Prime Minister S. Rajaratnam, who felt that the Malay lyrics of the anthem were so simple that "anyone over the age of five, unless mentally retarded, had no difficulty singing the anthem. All Singaporean children of kindergarten age have not only had no difficulty memorising the words but have for decades sung it every morning with 'strong feelings and emotion'." He also noted that the anthem had been translated into Singapore's three other official languages (English, Mandarin and Tamil) for those who cannot understand Malay.[32]
A subsequent poll by The Straits Times found that while many Singaporeans knew what the anthem generally meant, only seven out of 35 persons interviewed knew the meaning of each word. However, all but three of those interviewed agreed that the anthem should continue to be sung in Malay. The three persons who disagreed felt that the anthem should be in English because that was the language most commonly used in Singapore. All the interviewees, including those who did not know the meaning of the lyrics, said they felt a sense of pride when they heard or sang the national anthem.[31]
Well done for taking the pain to explain.
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
It is not always that an Anthem is sung together with the words.So for instance if you do get a gold medal in the Olympics,you would be without feelings at the flag raising ceremony?
i've seen athletes sing it......i mean who wouldn't after they've accomplished something for the country......